Due to my high visibility online as a Sacramento short sale agent, I receive a lot of email spam, much of it centering on short sales. When I received an email from Program 3648, I deleted it, and all those that came after it. I mean, who calls itself Program 3648 or Program HR 3648 -- is this the X-Files?
But on Wednesday, I stopped to read one of these emails. The email aroused my suspicions because it talked about Administration Policy and promised full commissions on short sales, while naming a bunch of major lenders. I know that full commission is an impossible guarantee. Red flag. I also noted the email was absent a company name but sported a Washington, D.C. address, made to look like it could be a government-sponsored entity. #2 red flag.
So, I decided to check it out and signed up for the Program 3648 webinar. It started out innocent enough. To qualify for the program, an agent must:
- Be full-time
- Have short sale experience
- Be able to handle at least 15 short sale listings
- Possess a proactive approach
- Maintain a proper mindset
That last 2 requirements were a bit peculiar because every successful short sale agent I know has those qualities. To push a "proactive approach" or "proper mindset," well, those are not things one would promote to an experienced real estate agent. It's insulting. But it's new information to an inexperienced agent. #3 red flag.
Program 3648 and Program HR 3648 also sport a little icon as their logo. It looks suspiciously like a government symbol with an eagle in the middle and lettering so tiny you can't read it, but it's not a government entity. #4 red flag.
Basically, this is how the program was laid out. An agent pays an upfront fee, signs a 6-month contract and agrees to pay a triple-digit monthly fee to Program 3648 or Program HR 3648. In return, the agent receives training on how to become a short sale listing agent . . . Wait. Didn't they just say they wanted experienced short sale agents? #5 red flag.
The agent will receive a list of 150 leads. These leads consist of homeowners who are 30 days or more behind in their mortgage payments. If an agent wanted to find a list of homeowners who have a Notice of Default filed against their homes, this information is available for free in the Sacramento County public records. The idea is agents then call or send direct mail to the homeowners, in essence, the program purports to turn real estate agents into telemarketers. #6 red flag.
What busy and successful short sale agent would want to do telemarketing? Probably none. But a brand new agent who has no business might be tempted to sign up for this program.
Program 3648 and Program HR 3648 also provide all the short sale negotiation for the agent. Gosh, I hope Program 3648 is a licensed real estate broker because only real estate brokers or lawyers can collect a commission, regardless of what they call it, to negotiate a short sale.
But the weird twist is the listing agent somehow charges the short sale buyer 1% of the sales price and makes the buyer pay its negotiation fee, 20% of which is rebated to the listing agent. Why would a buyer agree to pay a commission of 1% to the listing agent and the listing agent's third-party negotiator? #7 red flag.
I disconnected at that point. How many red flags does an agent need? I can already hear the lawyers at Lyon Real Estate having conniption fits over this.
Photo: Big Stock Photo
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Certified HAFA Specialist
My Sacramento Real Estate Listings
Elizabeth Weintraub is an author, home buying columnist for The New York Times-owned About.com, a Land Park resident, and a Land Park real estate agent who specializes in older, classic homes in Land Park, Curtis Park, Midtown and East Sacramento. Weintraub is also a Sacramento Short Sale agent who lists and successfully sells short sales throughout the four-county Sacramento area. Call Elizabeth Weintraub at 916.233.6759. Put 35 years of real estate experience to work for you. Broker-Associate at Lyon Real Estate. DRE License # 00697006.
The Short Sale Savior, by Elizabeth Weintraub, available at Amazon.com.
Lyon Real Estate is not associated with the government, and our service is not approved by the government or your lender. Even if you accept this offer and use our service, your lender may not agree to change your loan.
Photo: Unless otherwise noted in this blog, the photo is copyrighted by Big Stock Photo and used with permission.
The views expressed herein are Weintraub's personal views and do not reflect the views of Lyon Real Estate.
Disclaimer: If this post contains a listing, information is deemed reliable as of the date it was written. After that date, the listing may be sold, listed by another brokerage, canceled, pending or taken temporarily off the market, and the price could change without notice. It could blow up, explode or vanish. To find out the present status of any listing, please go to elizabethweintraub.com.
Sheesh. I wonder how many desperate agents have signed up for this?
It is a compliment to your success that you are getting spam email and unwelcome telemarketing calls, I guess.
Cheers,
Robin
Elizabeth, I hope zero agents signed up, thanks for the heads up, that is crazy. Fraud helped get us into this mess, it sure in the heck won't get us out of it.
Good blog! We are definitely getting hit with every scam out there.
Elizabeth: I hate the scammers floating out there among us. I know there are new agents in my office that could easily get sucked in by this one. Good expose on this Program 3648. Were you an investigative journalist in another life? :)
Hi Robin: Battling spam is a major headache for me, but I have so many filters set up that I can't even remember what or where they are anymore. The worst part is some of the short sale approval letters I receive from the banks have so many numbers and symbols in the subject line that they sometimes go into my spam filter.
Hi Heather: I imagine a lot of agents have signed up. Although they did say that the fees were reduced, slashed really, from previous pricing. Which makes me wonder if it's a discount-to-retail strategy or if Program 3648 is hurting for business.
Hi Sandy: Well, an agent who wants to do short sales can take a NAR-approved course and learn how to do their own negotiation. Finding short sale leads is not a problem in this business.
Hi Chris Ann: The motto from the now defunct Chicago City News Bureau, according to my husband, is "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."
Elizabeth,
I got this email too and thought it be worth a look. Then I googled it and the comments were less than stellar. Avoid them like the plague was the general consensus.
Featured @ Club Chaos
I had to turn off my best spam filter because too much real emails were ending up there. So I just delete delete delete about 80 or so a day. Pain in butt, but a must do. Actually got one today via my web site email form. They found my website and then sent me an email telling me they could make my website easy to find. WHAT?
Great Blog! Thanks for the heads up about this scam. Take Care!
Thanks Elizabeth, I havn't seen this one yet, thanks for the heads up.
Looks like someone getting lists you can get yourself and then telling you how to call the prospects for a fee. Great deal for them.
I haven't seen this yet, but we do have some short sales here where they tell us that the buyer has to pay 1% for the negotiator. People don't like that, and I don't see how it serves the seller client.
Nothing will get me to pay in advance for this stuff. The scams are everywhere and you can get better "education" from your local association or fellow agents.
Hi Elizabeth... I received the e-mails too. I tend to be suspicious by nature, but the "government looking" logo was what really set off my alarms. After Googling them, I couldn't hit the delete button quickly enough.
Hi Robert: You hit the nail on the head. Did you know there are also lead-generating companies that sell expired listings back to listing agents? That's nuts.
Hey Phil: Do you know of any buyers who have paid that fee? It sounds crazy to me. Why would a buyer do it -- especially if that buyer could pick up the same model as a short sale just down the street, where the listing agent actually performs the listing agent's job by taking care of the negotiation on the listing side.
Hi Steve: I wonder how many people are sucked in by that logo? I wouldn't want to be the owners of Program 3648 in court when the judge asks about it. Sooner or later, I imagine the government entity that owns the image likeness mimicked by Program 3648 will file a cease and desist.
Elizabeth - That is a new twist on crazy. I haven't gotten one of those emails yet, but I gets lots of others!
I just sat throgh a webinar on this program. I wish I had seen your blog posts first. That's an hour of my life wasted.
Thanks for your post. I just love being able to search any real estate topic on Active Rain and get good information.
I am listening to their webinar as I type this response. This one is titled "What would Google Do?" (using Google Chrome's Logo and no trademark signs anywhere so you know it also is not sanctioned by GOOGLE!
I will keep listening to hear their pitch and their call to action, but know in advance thanks to blogs like this that keep me from signing up!
Just heard an amazing new concept on their video "Fast is better than slow". LOL
The sad thing is that many agents will fall for this and send them money.
I don't even waste my time checking people like this out. I delete any of their emails
Thank you for blogging about this. I just finished doing their 37 minute video. Whew. not cool stuff. it's not fair to have the buyer pay for this. don't like it.
One of our agents received an email like this yesterday and asked me if I thought it was legit. Thanks for the information, it came me from having to research it further.
One of our agents received an email like this yesterday and asked me if I thought it was legit. Thanks for the information, it came me from having to research it further.
I hate it when agents are being taken advantage of. I am very glad that you guys saw the light and that I was able to be a small part of that rescue.
Thanks Elizabeth! I have a feeling you just saved me a lot of $$$!
I think that they're farming again as I just got another of their emails. I watched a short video clip in which they claimed that they've become the top short-sale platform in the country. Funny that I had never heard of them so I decided to do a little research and I'm so glad that you had already gone to the next step and shared with us. :-)
"If your mother says she loves you, check it out." LOVE it, thanks for the smile. And thanks for the tip off about these guys. Geesh.
"If your mother says she loves you, check it out." LOVE it, thanks for the smile. And thanks for the tip off about these guys. Geesh.
Elizabeth, came over here from your response on Barbara Jo's post. Paying for leads that are available in public records that you can get yourself with a few clicks? And then penalizing the buyer to pay for it? Definitely scammish!
I received a email from
I watched the video and it did not pass the smell test. That when I searched ActiveRain for them and confirmed
it, my nose was right.
I watched the 37 minute video & what a scam. I get my own leads & have a legitimate negotiation company that doesn't charge the buyer or the seller. They have been very successful with the short sales we have given them & I am pleased as punch! I agree with everyone.... stay away from Program 3648.
Great Post by the way!!
Thanks Elizabeth
I just received an email today. I googled and found this blog. Thanks for the tip!
Wow thanks for saving 30 minutes of my life! I'll hit the delete key also!
I, too, received the email last week from "Missy" giving me the heads up that they are looking to get an agent in place this week. I couldn't make it through the whole 'webinar' in one sitting (and still haven't) and decided to search them. They're down to $99 to start + $199 mo deposit.
Thanks for taking the time to go through the program...In CA it's not going to fly especially with the negotiator not being a licensed agent. Sounds like a great way to lose your license.
Thanks Elizabeth for your post. I received this e-mail today and decided to look into it when I came across your blog.
I also found an article from the CA DRE (dre.ca.gov) in the Consumers tab, subsection Consumer Alerts "Update to DRE Issued Consumer and Industry Alert(s) Regarding Short Sales Fraud, and Related Issues" dated September 2010. It's in regards Short Sales Negotiation and questionable practices.
Elizabeth,
A local short sale attorney sent me the link telling me that Coldwell Banker national was signing up for Program 3648 soon and that us Keller Williams agents should get on the bandwagon if we don't want to miss out. What?! !!
I researched this a year ago and again just now and was very thankful to find your post. I'm hitting the "DELETE" button on 3648.
Julia Fishel, Keller Williams Realty, Palm Harbor, FL
I just got the email yesterday and as usual I google the company to find out what they are about...
There are so many companies out there that prey on struggling agents. We have to remember that it weakens who we are as professionals if we turn to an outside company for the leads we should be creating ourselves. Afterall, this really is a lead generation business,
http://www.portlandvancouverhousingdeals.com
http://www.portlandvancouverhomes.com
Denice Neddo
I received the email.....went to active rain to check......DELETE!
I just received an email from them today and I was a bit suspicious about it as well when I called and an "old timey" answering machine picked up :) I'm not a technology freak, but, come on...at least have voicemail!
Excellent Post! So detailed and helpful. I received the email today and was turned off right away. Cracks me up when a stranger acts like I'm the perfect fit but I better hurry because slots are filling up
I just received a email from them today! Thanks for the great post.
Thank God for Active Rain! :-) Although skeptical, I thought I would check it out, then research it here! Thanks for the post Elizabeth!
Thanks again for this post. Their still emailing me and I forgot so I searched AR again, up came your post.
Thanks Elizabeth. I just got the e-mail and searched ActiveRain (such a great resource) and confirmed what I suspected without having to sit through a Webinar. You are a time-saver. Thanks!
I received an e-mail just today and initially thought it was a gonvernment program that the county was infroming local agents about. I watched their little webinar...I'm thinking to myself "well I can find these people behind on their payments for free and send them letters" ....also as soon as they started talking prices and how they have reduced it so drastically I googled and found yours and other warnings regarding this company. times are tough enough and I'm hoping new or seasoned agents aren't wasting their hard earned money on this scam.
Bill Baptista / REMAX New Dimensions New Port Richey Florida
I received the email this morning and it peaked my curiosty. I started the webinar and then opened a new window to search AR. Thank you for the post, I stopped the video and know what their angle is!!
Great post to inform agents about potential scams like these. I have to admit the video can get you a little excited especially the part where the setup fee used to be $699 and monthly fee used to be $799 now they have been "wiped out" and now the price is $99 for the setup fee and $299 for the monthly fee. To the non-discerning agent, it makes the $99 and the $299 almost digestible until someone slaps you back to reality.
Now, wait a darn minute! Am I the only one in the Active Rain community of 200,000 members who did not get this email? Boy do I feel left out!
From your description, what these people are pitching does not even come close to passing the smell test. In other words, the idea stinks. In addition, the prospect of requiring the buyer to pay for the negotiation fee - AND - rebating a portion of that fee to the listing agent is likely not going to pass scrutiny - or the smell test - with the California Dept. of Real Estate.
I just got the email and did a search, thank you for taking the time to share this information. I am just getting back to work after having twins and have come back to a really tough market. I have to admit I was tempted, if nothing else just to get some quick leads!
I went to a BPO MCE class the other day and he warned us that you should not pay for ANY leads in short sale or BPO industry.
Well back to work, trying to get my property management company back up and running here in Galveston, Harris & Brazoria Counties :0)
I received a similar email and did what I always do when I am solicited - I responded with, "What's the catch? What's the cost?"... naturally I received no reply or response.
So then I decided to "take the bait" and watched the video to learn that this organization has "dramatically" reduced the agent investment - the $799 fee to "learn" how to perform short sales was reduced to a mere $99 and the monthly outlay decreased from $599 to "only" $299 - wow what a savings!
At that point I did what I typically do to spam mail: I closed the window and selected the delete button.
Thanks Elizabeth,
I am watching the webinar now after receiving an email titled, "Placer County Short Sales", which led me to believe it was presented by our local realtor association. Wow, they go to some lengths to get people in!
I wish I had seen your blog post before wasting an hour in the webinar. My alarm bells went off when you had to pay $97 up front to find out if your area was available and then they would refund your money if it wasn't. What?!?!
I got the same email and was cirious enough to listen to the webinar, for a short time. While listening I googled them and saw your post here. Thanks so much! I was only about 30 minutes into it and it was starting to look like an expensive endeavor. So after reading this post I closed out the call and am moving on. Thanks for saving me the time.
Well, I am happy this blog is still saving a few agents.
I watched the 37 minute video & what a scam. I get my own leads and I don't charge the buyer or the seller.
I'm glad that I did the research
Thank you Elizabeth
I, too, have received spam email from this company. It sounded weird and I immediately became suspicious. Great post!
They're now sending out emails titled "Listing referral" with a link titled http://go.towebinar.org/yournamehere where your name is replaced with some version of your name.
The address at the bottom reads is:
Short Sale Outreach
2450 South Gilbert Rd
Chandler, AZ 85286
Many red flags still!
Yes I received an email for them yesterday. SMH this is crazy.
Please, please, please, home sellers and agents beware. In my opinion this company is a huge fraud. They market and advertise alluding to services that they do not provide. They are not in any way affiliated with the government, though they recommend marketing to potential sellers so that it appears you (the agent) are representing some type of governmental organization. To the agent they promise exclusive leads (they're not exclusive), and they promise the facilitation of your short sale transactions. However, they can't negotiate any type of short sale because they are not licensed to do so. So you must do all of the work and then pay them or charge the buyer a fee to basically turn in all of the work you have collected. They cannot even talk to the bank. They're advertising is intentionally misleading, and walks the line of legality. They are not licensed as realtors or as debt management companies in states they operate in. BEWARE!
Elizabeth - thanks for the heads-up. I did sign up for the seminar out of curiosity. After only a few minutes into it, I became suspicious as soon as I heard a few of the buzz words showing they were selling their special "system" (which I already have, and so do most competent short sale brokers). While I was listening, I did a quick search and found your blog and other postings questioning the program. To me, comments like this on a credible forum like ActiveRain was enough, so I balied. I probably should have searched here first, but you saved me a lot of time.